Sophia Fuller: Tell us a little about yourself; what got you into writing?
Stephen Lee Naish: I studied film and media way back in the late 1990s and early 2000s in the city of Leicester, UK, where I grew up. My ambition was to become a filmmaker or film editor. For a few years, I would film local bands and musicians, and also bands that passed through town. I would make music videos, live performance videos, art projections, and music documentaries. At the same time I was also writing short stories, and screenplays for potential narrative films that I wanted to make down the line. I remember in my late twenties sitting in some musty music venue at 11pm waiting for a band I was meant to film to come on stage and thinking “I’m getting too old for this.” I put down the cameras, enrolled back in school to study politics, creative writing, and nonfiction writing and bridged my interests in film, and my knowledge of production, with my interests in politics and pop culture.
SF: What inspired you to write Music and Sound in the Films of Dennis Hopper?
SLN: I had written a book titled Create or Die back in 2016, which covered the many artistic, political, and cultural aspects of Dennis Hopper’s life, art, and films. There was an essay in that book on Hopper’s association with music, musicians, and the soundtracks he placed in his directorial films. It was a concise essay and, because it’s an illuminating aspect of Hopper’s directorial style, I knew there was more to say. Even after the book had been published, my research and my fascination with Hopper’s life and art never ceased, so I was always looking for ways to expand on the ideas and continue to write about him. The Filmmakers and Their Soundtracks series from Routledge seemed like an outlet for a more in-depth analysis of his work. It also opened up lots of other avenues of investigation in the wider political and cultural scope.
SF: What initially drew you to Dennis Hopper’s work?
SLN: As a kid, I was aware of Hopper through films such as Waterworld, Speed, and Super Mario Bros. His nineties mainstream hits. When I went to film school, my classmates would recommend films back and forth, and make connections, you know, if you like that film you’ll love this one, etc. I remember after discussing Platoon, and Full Metal Jacket, someone suggesting Apocalypse Now as a great Vietnam War film. Hopper’s role as the photojournalist was small, but highly memorable (I kind of wanted him to be Kurtz). Then, a few weeks later, because we’d been talking about Quentin Tarantino, someone recommended True Romance, which he had written the screenplay for, and which again featured a small but memorable performance from Hopper. And then again, a while later we’d be talking about David Lynch and Blue Velvet came up in the conversation as an accessible intro to his style. Then, on a whim, I bought Easy Rider on VHS when that format was being replaced by DVD and was being sold off super cheap. I just kept being exposed to his work across the decades of his career and his performances intrigued me and sometimes unnerved me. I began seeking out more of his acting work and wanting to know more about his life and times. Revelations of him being a director, an artist, photographer, and generally an American pop culture figure made him more fascinating and very layered. His whole life offers these little excursions into different worlds of film, art, literature, music, and culture.
SF: How did Dennis Hopper’s approach to music evolve over his career?
SLN: It’s telling that, in the book, I discuss the first four of Hopper’s directorial films in some depth. I’m not alone in thinking that Easy Rider, The Last Movie, Out of the Blue, and Colors are the iconoclast entries in Hopper’s filmography. The music in these films, which are mostly compilation-style soundtracks, feels considered, era-defining, and is brought to the foreground of the narratives, sometimes literally being included within the title of the films themselves. His later films, The Hot Spot, Catchfire, and Chasers rely much more on generic film music. The Hot Spot is somewhat the exception and is intriguing because it features an original jazz/blues hybrid score from Miles Davis and John Lee Hooker. In its own right, it’s a great record, but within the film, the soundtrack is pushed to the background. In the book, I point out that in his first four films, music, lyrics, and sound insinuate the characters’ internal thoughts, feelings, and moods and connect them to the wider cultures around them. This aspect is forsaken in his later films, which is a great shame, but was probably the conditions of his “studio-director-for-hire” status at the time.
SF: Are Hopper’s contributions to cinema appreciated?
SLN: I think his work as an actor will always be what he is remembered and best appreciated for. Secondly, as a director of a number of very iconoclastic films that have defined certain eras of American society. While cinema will always be his domain, and where most would discover him, his artistic works, photography, and ideas about creativity and art are becoming more and more recognized, with volumes of books being published over the last decade, and countless exhibitions showing worldwide. Who knows, in ten years we may discuss Hopper’s impact in artistic terms instead of cinematic contributions.
SF: Is the role of music and sound in film changing in contemporary cinema?
SLN: Certainly the reliance on popular music and songs dominating a soundtrack the way Easy Rider and Colors did has declined greatly. I can really only think of the soundtracks to the three Guardians of the Galaxy movies that use that similar compilation format. Those films tapped into something retro, nostalgic, and ironic and I’m sure this style feels antiquated and a little cheap for filmmakers today. What I’m excited about is how film music composers are using original music and sound design to subtly complement the images, but also intensify the viewing experience. I notice it in a lot of contemporary horror and science fiction films, but really we’re in a golden age of original soundtrack composition across all genres. Jóhann Jóhannsson, who sadly passed away, Trent Reznor and Atticus Ross, Nick Cave and Warren Ellis, Clint Mansell, Johnny Greenwood, and Mica Levi, to name a few, are producing incredible works. I’m also excited to see the engagement with soundtracks as a separate entity from the films themselves and celebrated with dedicated podcasts, blogs, books, YouTube deep-dives, and websites all focused on the art of soundtracking.
SF: What was the most challenging part of the writing process?
SLN: The whole book was a joy to research and write, but I felt challenged by the prospect of the chapter on Hopper’s fourth film Colors and its hip hop and rap soundtrack. It was daunting because I am a white, British, working-to-middle-class, erstwhile indie kid writing about hip hop and rap music, gang culture, drugs, Black experiences of social mobility, harmful and systemic racist American policies, and segregated urbanization in Los Angeles. My educational, racial, and class background couldn’t help me, so the research had to be extensive, well organized, thorough, and through the lens of Black scholarship and Black experiences. The tone of the writing had to be devoid of preaching, hysteria, or whitesplaining. While it was a hard chapter at first, it became the most enjoyable to engage with and write and the most educational in terms of what I absorbed from the research sources.
SF: Were there any surprising discoveries you made while writing this book?
SLN: Nothing earth-shattering, as such. I’m a walking encyclopedia of Hopper’s work, so there were no big surprises. But there were little anecdotes here and there that could have led to interesting alternatives. There was a comment from Hopper on the sleeve notes to The Hot Spot soundtrack album that stated that he always intended to have Miles Davis soundtrack all his directorial films. Obviously, he only managed to commission him for The Hot Spot. I think perception of Hopper’s films would be very different if that had occurred. Maybe they would be less memorable. Maybe more so. I like thinking about how small decisions could change the course of a career and a legacy.
SF: What advice would you give to aspiring writers, especially those interested in similar topics?
SLN: It would be advice I’m unfortunately pretty bad at following myself, which is to try and be a good, and wide-ranging reader. I suck at this and the “to read” pile just gets higher and higher. I’d also say that it’s hard to materialize as a brilliant writer right off the starting line, so do not be afraid of failure, disappointment, or embarrassment. It should all inform and improve the work later down the line.
SF: What’s next for you?
SLN: I’m currently contracted to write a book about environmental catastrophes in film and how they can shape our understanding of human-induced climate change and present a possibility for life in a post-catastrophe, post-capitalist world. I guess what the proposal boils down to is the end of the world really an ending or a beginning of a new one?
Music and Sound in the Films of Dennis Hopper is available now from Routledge.
Author Biography
Sophia Fuller is a University of North Carolina Charlotte student majoring in both communications and film production with a minor in film studies. She has a passion for all things film-related and is currently interning with Film Matters.
